Listen in as Jay Johnson, CEO of Coeus Creative Group, LLC, shares tips on how body language has a huge impact on the way people understand messages.

 

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00:07 Lynne Jarman-Johnson: Money, I’m Home. Welcome on in. I’m Lynne Jarman-Johnson, and we are so delighted to have you with us today. We are taping on location in Detroit for the Future Summit 2020, which is through CUES. And one of our speakers was so fascinating, and we are fascinated to have you here with us today on our podcast. Jay Johnson is the CEO of Coeus Creative Group. I’m kind of feeling like I want to be sitting up straight in front of your Jay, why would that be?

00:35 Jay Johnson: I don’t know, I think that your posture’s perfectly natural and very, very warm and welcoming. So thank you for having me here.

00:43 LJ: You are an expert on body language, and that what I really got from your presentation, too, but it’s not just about body language, it’s about voice and tone and not so much about what we say.

00:57 JJ: In a lot of cases, that’s very true. And we tend to find that some people can really inspire us and they really didn’t have anything important to say. And then we can find those people that are not all that inspiring but what happens is, “Wow, they just said something profound, and I almost missed it.” And body language and tone and inflection has a huge impact on the way that people understand messages.

01:20 LJ: So you go all over the world to help, not only companies, but leaders engage in learning these tips, because they really do help in everyday life, but also in really becoming a successful leader.

01:36 JJ: Yeah. So we use this, and I’ve spoken in about 22 countries, which is always interesting because there are small nuances in different cultures and different things that kind of happen, it’s always a lot of fun to explore the body language of other cultures. But for the most part, we’re all human, and we share this and this, these techniques and these understandings and these being able to read really applies to anything where there’s human interaction. So sales, negotiations, customer service, you name it, it’s something that’s a hugely valuable and critical skill for people to understand.

02:10 LJ: One of the pieces of I guess I’d call it a golden nugget that you shared, has to do with how when you can read a person’s body language and you see that they might be maybe timid or not comfortable, how you then can turn that to your advantage to become a friend to help. How do you learn those techniques?

02:37 JJ: So a big part of it is to really become aware of your surroundings and situations. And for us at least in terms of the way that we look at behavior, is behaviors the root of all success and failure and everything that we do. How we choose to behave, and I say “choose” because we make that choice. We can choose to be that friend or we can choose to ignore it and when we make that choice, there’s consequences, positive sometimes, negative in others. So what we really try to look at and try to train people is to be aware of the situations, and they choose how they want to then react to it. And in a lot of these cases, we don’t say, “Hey, be fake or anything else,” because our programs are all about building better relationships. If people like you, they’ll do business with you, and if they don’t like you, well you’re out of luck.

03:26 LJ: Authenticity.

03:27 JJ: Exactly, exactly.

03:27 LJ: Is very important. So give us an example of something that we can look for. Let’s say we’re talking to our boss and maybe it’s a difficult conversation, is there body language that we ourselves should learn to try to control or body languages to find out what the other individual is actually portraying versus speaking as you said earlier?

03:55 JJ: Yeah, both. So for example if you are going in to have a difficult conversation with your boss about having a raise, for example. And you walk in and you say, “Well, here’s what I’ve done, and this is how I’ve added value and it’s that time” and all of these other great arguments as for why. And you start to see shoulders come in a little tighter, elbows or you see a disengagement of them leaning back on their chair or any of these symbols, we know right then that the argument’s probably not going in that direction. So now we have a choice. How can we change our tactic? How can we create a different influence measure? So by reading that body language or if we see them fold their arms, they start to cover up, we can always do something to say, “And here’s the sheet that I’d like you to take a look at it and have them …

04:43 LJ: Physical change.

04:43 JJ: Physically changed, because the mind follows the body and the body follows the mind. So if we’re in that situation, we can actually use influence measures to get a better response from that person even on a subconscious psychological level.

04:57 LJ: Explain what you just said: the mind follows the body; the body follows the mind.

05:02 JJ: Yeah. So our mind and human beings are one of the most spectacular species obviously, and I’m not saying that because I’m bias, but it’s really interesting in a way that our brains function in the way that we work. So, for example, if I’ve had a piece of chocolate cake here, we could have thoughts about thoughts, about the thoughts, and we could say, “I want that cake, but I’m on a diet. Oh, but this would be a great … Oh but … ”

05:28 LJ: I just did that.

05:29 JJ: Right? So we have these conflicting thoughts whereas if we put that in front of most other species of animal on the face of the planet, they would eat the cake and not think twice about it, right? So what that means is our brain is capable of creating things that don’t exist, imaginative things. And it can be very powerful in so much as we can create our own attitude; we can create our own calmness, and that is a function of being able to manage and understand how our brains work and what are some of the body things. So like if you’re a yoga practitioner, you’re taught how to breath and those are physical things that have an impact on your brain and your brain has an impact on your behavior.

06:11 LJ: And when you see that there’s fear in the room, that’s quite a feeling. Is it hard sometimes though for us as humans to be able to combat that in a rational way, if it’s like quick? You know, you think about someone just startling you as an example.

06:34 JJ: Yeah. So this is one of those things where people are all different, so you see some people if there’s a fire, they run into the fire; there are people that are more trained to go towards the fight mechanism or to the attack type mechanism versus people that are more prone to go to avoid or the defense mechanism or the withdrawal or the flee. So a lot of that has to do with individuals and how they interact with the world, but the reality is, is we can actually train ourselves to stay calm under pressure, and that’s what police departments do, that’s what FBI agents do, that’s what the military does, is learning to be able to manage those fears. Is it possible to manage them out of existence? No, of course not. We can’t just stop having emotions, unless you’re a psychopath. You can’t just stop having emotions. But behavioral intelligence is being able to manage our behaviors regardless of what emotional impact that we have, and that’s why we focus on behavior as a company.

07:32 LJ: How about the space between us? I had a really good conversation with a co-worker, and every time that he comes into my office, he literally gets down to my level. I’m a smaller, shorter person, and he’s very tall. And so he will intentionally find a chair or something that gets down to my level versus towering over that spatial … And he said to me today after your presentation, “You know, I didn’t realize but I do that intentionally.”

08:06 JJ: What ends up happening … And a lot of the things that we talk about, we do or we understand or we intuitively know it but it’s not intentional, right? We know that this has the right impact but we’re not sure exactly why it is. That’s why we kind of focused on the psychology and neuroscience to explain it. But I would say that that person really intuitively understood if I lower myself, then it’s more equal—it’s more opportunity for us to be cooperative rather than be towering over you and dominating the space. That’s somebody that is probably considerate and has a high sign of empathy.

08:41 LJ: So how do you learn that? Is it something that you can train yourself to learn?

08:48 JJ: 100%. And I say that because I used to be a dumb hockey player. I played hockey for …

08:54 LJ: Well, I’m a hockey mom.

08:57 JJ: Yeah, I played for almost 18 years. I played up through the junior levels. And the way that you finished an argument on the ice was kind of the modus operandi. And I also did mixed martial arts after that. But through a lot of self-reflection, self-study, that’s really what got me into behavior in the first place, was trying to understand myself or why was my reaction different than somebody else’s. And discovering those things, becoming aware of them and then learning the techniques and tactics to be able to manage and control those, whatever the reactions are. Sometimes it’s avoid. Sometimes it’s withdrawal. Sometimes it’s engaged. Whatever those are, being able to use those in a constructive, positive manner rather than just being reactive.

09:42 LJ: How did you then decide? Seriously that is a really big change. And when did you decide that this is making an impact and people are asking for help?

09:54 JJ: In that mix of playing hockey, I actually was, I was in the Nick when I was on the debate team in high school. And I was recruited by Wayne State University to come and be on the debate team. So that was quite the change. I had a pension for speaking, but I definitely wasn’t quite well-read, and I wasn’t a high-quality debater. But I debated for five years and ended up being on one of the teams that competed at the national level in my last year.

10:22 LJ: So exciting.

10:23 JJ: Yeah, it was a great experience, but it really taught me a lot about people and how they interact and to really learn some of those different aspects. And when I finished that, people who were saying, “Hey, can you teach me argumentation? Can you teach me public speaking?” When I started to do that, that’s when I started to learn these anxieties, these fears and just kind of pushed further and further and further to both understand myself, but also to understand the people that I was trying to help.

10:49 LJ: And I love the thought, you know when you are fearful and if you’re a leader, you will at some juncture need to speak in public. And it’s amazing to me to see how it becomes almost a hamster wheel if you start to get anxious or anxiety about it, and what you’re doing is teaching everyone what internally works for them.

11:11 JJ: So we look for triggers. What are those triggers for anxiety? And if we can become aware of some of those things, we can mitigate them. For example, for the most part being a professional speaker, I generally don’t get too nervous on the stage anymore, but with that being said, if you put me into an uncertain or an unfamiliar situation, like for example in 2018, I felt a ton of anxiety when I did my TEDx talk. First time ever doing anything like that, and I don’t get audience engagement ’cause I just have to talk. And what if I screw up on camera and all of those fears, I was like “Oh my gosh, I’m feeling like all of those.” Or when I speak in a different country for the first time, and I don’t quite know how they’re going to react to my humor or how they’re going to react to my jokes, ’cause that’s really one of the most important things, is are they having fun and laughing? But those are situations where even somebody that’s been doing this for 12 years still experiences those same emotions, those same fears, those same anxieties. But if I can find those triggers, I can put something into place to be able to manage them and be able to do what I need to do.

12:14 LJ: So what are your triggers?

12:16 JJ: My triggers?

12:16 LJ: Yeah, do you know?

12:18 JJ: Uncertainty.

12:19 LJ: Yeah, yes you just don’t… Yeah.

12:21 JJ: Yeah, so it’s uncertainty. And that’s pretty true. You know what was really funny. I heard somebody say, “What happens when the boss calls you to the office?” And this is true of everybody. If you get that phone call and say, “I need you to come down to my office.” Most oftentimes, you’re not going to be like, “Hey, I’m getting a raise. You’re going to be thinking, ‘Oh God, what did I do? What did I mess up?’ Or am I getting… What’s the punishment?’” You think that way, and that’s how our brains are actually wired. They’re wired for the survival. So when I start to notice that trigger of uncertainty that causes me that anxiety, I start logically processing that. So instead of me feeling anxious about what could happen, I match that instead. So for every scared thought, I match up, but what if it was this? And what if it was this? And that’s just my process, but there’s tons of different tools that we can use to really get over some of those things.

13:08 LJ: And I find it interesting that we don’t tell people what it is that sets your trigger off. So an example is, we have a very large family, [and] it’s a very large group text. And if a text comes across from dad that says, “Please call me.” Every single one of us now has finally communicated this, that sets fear, like is dad upset about something? And he’s like, “Well, why would that be?” No, I just said, “Please come.”

13:39 JJ: Right.

13:40 LJ: But yeah, that whole… Whatever triggers you, and it cracked us all up when we finally verbally talked about it, that we all said that. But I think sometimes we keep things into ourself, and we don’t ask somebody if there’s something going on that’s disconcerting to you, you kind of hide it instead of being transparent.

14:04 JJ: Yeah. And a lot of times, we have a fear of engaging, so we tend to avoid. We have, in that example, it’s a great example of us applying our own fear or uncertainty into a textual communication with no body language, with no non-verbal or para-verbal communication attached to it. Please call me with the smiley means something very different than please call me with a frown phase, right? Of course, but yeah, that’s a great example of us applying that fear in a way that misreads the conversation until you actually have that engaged conversation about that.

14:39 LJ: Well, and I tell you in credit unions with our members, I think the number one thing that we really focus on as servant leaders is trust, and to build trust needs that open communication. And sometimes difficult conversations if someone feels uncomfortable about finances. So this has just been delightful to learn more and to how to think about it ourselves.

15:05 JJ: Well, thank you very much. It’s been my pleasure to be here and to work with everybody today.

15:09 LJ: Well Jay, we also have one more question for you. We like to wrap up our podcast with a little personal question. Has there ever been a time that someone gave you financial advice that just kind of hit home with you?

15:22 JJ: Yeah. Actually, I would probably say that it would be my father that gave me some of the best advice ever, and it was not what he said, but necessarily the alternative. And at one point in time, he ended up… He was a much older gentleman, and he would put his money in different places and he had these different banks, and he was a business owner and everything else like that. And one of the things that he had said to me was, “Be careful where you put your money, because if you don’t be careful, you’re probably not going remember where you put it.” And that was one of the things that ended up happening at one point in time, was he was like, “I know I have a bank account out there, and I probably have some money that’s been saved up there.” So I’ve thought about that my entire life. I’m a credit union member myself. I know exactly where my money is and really good advice especially… And I’m young right now, but one day I might just forget what that credit union is, so sticking to one.

16:26 LJ: And all of the options you have now, that’s great advice. Well thank you, Jay. Money, I’m Home, finance to fitness, we are here for you every week, and we so thank you for joining us. And we’re actually broadcasting from Detroit in the Future Summit Conference 2020. Thank you so much for Jake and Aaron for producing our podcast, and hey, listen in next week ’cause we’ll be coming at you with more.

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