Author “How to Afford Everything” Dr. Darla Bishop joins host Lynne Jarman-Johnson along with Consumers’ @Work Program Manager Scott Dobson to discuss Bishop’s journey from poverty to financial stability, and the value of opening dialogue about money. Also, Money Minute expert Sandy Bloem shares a little about local business lending with Consumers’ business services team.

Listen to our podcast on the go! Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify so you never miss an episode.

 

[music]

00:00:06,303 Lynne Jarman-Johnson (LJJ): Money, I’m Home. Welcome in. I’m Lynne Jarman-Johnson with Consumers Credit Union. And you know what? We have such a great podcast today, because it really kind of envelops everything that we like to talk about here at Consumers, and that’s making sure that you manage your money well.

Dr. Darla Bishop is joining us, and she is an expert not only on managing money but telling us how we can buy anything we want. Now, that sounds good, doesn’t it?

And, hey, don’t forget, at the end we’ve got our Money Minute Expert, so let’s jump right in.

You know how sometimes in life you’re meant to meet someone? Well, that is Dr. Darla Bishop. She met—We just met recently at Inforum, which is a women’s leadership growth opportunity. If you haven’t heard of Inforum Michigan, please go look and join. It’s awesome. And we’ll, we’ll interview some people from Inforum at some juncture, but today I can tell you, Scott, you’re going to be so excited, because Scott runs all of our financial education here with our @Work program, which we’ll get into in a little bit.

But I wanted to introduce you to Dr. Darla Bishop. You wrote a book that just came out and it is fascinating. Thank you for being with us.

00:01:14,340 Dr. Darla Bishop (DDB): Well, thank you for having me. Yes. I wrote How to Afford Everything. And part of it is I really just wanted to save people some years and tears as they were trying to figure out money. Because it took me too many years in tears.

00:01:26,447 LJJ: You know, I love you say “years and tears” and that you’re really open book about talking about how to make sure that you’re successful with money but not be embarrassed by it. Tell us about your journey.

00:01:37,519 DDB: That’s right. So I grew up in Detroit. And while my parents loved me and gave me lots of love, they didn’t have much else. And so, I realized just how little we had. To their credit, when I went to college, because I had a classmate who had a Range Rover and special permission to drive it on campus. And I was dropped off by a cousin who was: “I’m so proud of you, honey. You’re going to do great. Got to go to work. Love you. Bye.”

And so just to see the difference in how my classmates used money and had a relationship with money … I was like, “Okay, I need to figure this out, because if I’m at school with these folks, that means there’s a lot of things we have in common. So, I can figure the money part out.”

00:02:17,208 LJJ: What’s interesting to me is the eye-opening experience that is, when you’re walking on campus, you’re scared, you’re frightened. And yet you said, “Look it, this is doable.”

00:02:23,845 DDB: And, frankly, I thought I was smarter than everyone there anyway.

00:02:30,715 Scott Dobson (SD): 21-year-olds.

00:02:31,715 DDB: Yeah, 18. So they have it even worse.

00:02:36,418 SD: Well, tell us about some of the success stories that you’ve encountered as you were writing this book about people that you’ve run into and successes that they felt by taking hold of their finances.

00:02:45,256 DDB: So, one of the very important people of, my life, my hairdresser, has been self-employed for four or five years. Building her small business as a mom, needed flexibility. And as we were talking every week, she’d come and do my hair and I’d say, “Well, how are you doing your business books? And how are you keeping your receipts? And I noticed you said you travel to do some hair for someone, you know, how did you track that?

This tax time, she thought she was going to have a bill of about $200. But because she said, you know what, in your book you told me I needed to itemize my deductions, she ended up with a refund for $5,000. That is helping her to move into a better situation in terms of her housing for her kids. And she made some investments in her business.

00:03:24,544 LJJ: Wow. Dr. Bishop, tell us, how did you get to where you are and what made you think—obviously, at the beginning in college, you thought, “Okay, I can do this.” But then what made you think, “Wait, now I can help people?”

00:03:37,218 DDB: It took me more than 100 books. I read more than 100 books on financial literacy and self-development and career. Because most of us have to work for our money. So I wanted to understand how that works and how to use the money and the resources that your job can give to you to get ahead.

And probably in the last 15 books, I was like—every time I read a book—I said, “I could have wrote this book. I should have wrote this book. This book is missing something.” And what they were missing for me is almost none of the books gave me a step by step.

You know, I’m a millennial, an elder millennial. So, I’m thinking about my parents. I’m thinking about my children’s college education, should they decide to go. Thinking about my own student loans, wanting to be a homeowner, and what that means, wanting to drive a car that doesn’t break down, having some money in the bank so that we can visit our friends who live all over the world. And no one told me, “Well, if I don’t have room for all 10 of those, here are the three you prioritize. And then you add this one, and then you add this one.”

The other piece that was missing for me, is again, almost none of them honored my experience and my expertise as someone who survived poverty. I actually know a lot about money and how to use it and how to stretch it. But what I had to learn was how to live with money, because I knew how to live without it.

00:04:50,991 SD: Wow. Wow. That’s a that’s a great point. When we talk to people, oftentimes we have trouble getting people to open up or talk about their finances. They have a fear or this thought that they shouldn’t talk about it, especially if their finances aren’t going well for them. How do you get people to open up and talk about their finances even though they’re fearful about them?

00:05:09,768 DDB: I tell them the more you do it, the easier it gets. So why don’t you trust me? Tell me your deepest, darkest secret. What am I going to do? Write it in a book?

00:05:19,707 LJJ: Maybe.

00:05:20,441 DDB: But seriously, the more you talk about it—and if you’re not comfortable sharing your situation, then start asking a lot of questions. Because even through the practice of asking questions: “Well, how does this work? And how would you do this? And if this situation came up?”

You can get a lot of information that you can apply to your own situation, and you get more comfortable hearing the terms, using the terms. And next thing you know, you’ll be talking about money to people at a community event and won’t be able to shut up.

00:05:48,823 LJJ: Well, I. Go ahead, Scott.

00:05:50,724 SD: I’m sorry. Just one more question. I notice in your book you have like a lot of worksheets and actionables. I’ve read also a lot of personal self-help books that give you ideas, but not really like: “What do I do tonight? or “What do I do tomorrow?” Do you think that’s like a difference between your book and some of the others that might be out there?

00:06:06,566 DDB: Absolutely. That’s on purpose. So, when I was working with my editor, I told her every chapter had to have at least three worksheets. And I thought she was going to say, “Well, no one’s going to publish a book full of worksheets.” And part of it is because when I’ve talked with younger people, because I do a lot of work on college campuses, because I’m also a professor … And when I talk with young people, they’re like, “Okay, that’s a good idea, but what if I make a mistake? What if I mess up the math? You know, that’s a mistake I don’t want to make and then maybe not be able to recover from.”

And so, I said, “Well, let me have them practice the skills, practice the math.” Because, yes, money is math, but it ain’t just math, right? So, you need to be able to add and subtract, but also balance the things that matter, matter more—are urgent versus not urgent when you’re doing that budget. And so, I wanted people to have the opportunity to practice the skill so that it felt good when they moved to their actual bank account, or if they’re an older millennial like me and still uses a checkbook, to their check register.

00:07:00,929 SD: Gotcha. My last question: If I want to afford something that my wife doesn’t, how do I talk her into it?

00:07:08,800 DDB: Well, one of the ways that you can get there is you can figure out why it’s so important to you and to explain to her why it’s important to you. Paint the picture. So, you know, “I really want to get a boat and here’s why.” Because I think if we have a boat, we’d have more opportunity to spend time with our aging parents and our siblings that we never get to see. And she might say, “Well, there are other ways we can do that.” But in that conversation, you might figure out that what you’re really after is quality time with those loved ones. And so go figure out how to have that. And maybe the boat we save for later.

00:07:38,116 SD: That’s a better answer than I hoped for.

00:07:41,751 LJJ: Well, and really the cool part about this, Dr. Bishop, if you don’t mind—I’m just going to open up, I’m just going to open up—is the conversational tone that you use. Okay. Now there’s a focus here that I opened up on page 100, and it is Investments: Risk and Reward. But what you talk about is in real language that I can understand where a lot of times when I open up a financial education book, or any financial book, it is up here to me. And so, what do I do? I shut down, and I don’t continue on. How important is that conversational tone?

00:08:15,870 DDB: It’s so important, because I wanted people to feel like they were in conversation with me. In fact, before I published the book, I recorded a mini series of podcasts, because I was actually a little bit afraid that unless people had heard me talk about money, they’d read the book and be like, “Who is this girl taking this very important, serious subject and being so relaxed and kind of funny about it.”

But I thought if I was relaxed and funny about it, maybe that would invite people to, again, be in conversation with me and to read the book and to get the information and to feel really good. Because let me tell you, I’ve had a little bit of money. And right now, I have medium-sized money. And money is fun. And I want people to know
that money is fun.

00:08:56,392 LJJ: One really important question—you talk about being a professor, so you are with, I’m assuming, younger students. Their life is so different than a boomer—at the end of the boomer generation—than even millennials. Like my kids, they don’t know what a checkbook is. They use a debit card. Is it just crazy to you to see how things have changed and how do you communicate with them about—really there’s fundamentals that are still so important?

00:09:27,375 DDB: So funny story. I actually make almost anyone I work with in workshops or one-on-one pull out paper and pen. Because there is a mind body connection to this stuff. It is important to physically write down your goals, to physically write down the numbers and to scratch it out and add and subtract. There’s something about how it cements in the brain. And so, I actually take people out of digital, just for a little bit so that they can feel it, and then they can go back to their tools and their spreadsheets and their apps. Because those tools are really helpful and have some things built in, and I need you to learn it. And sometimes that pen and paper is what helps cement it.

00:10:03,795 LJJ: And helps cement that budget, right? Right.

Scott, I’m going to turn to you actually now and ask you a question, because we just talked about tools and apps. You help run our @Work program, which actually is teaching any employer in town who would like financial education to their employees. That’s what Scott heads up. And the tools that you have are pretty incredible. You do start with, I know some paperwork, too, but—

00:10:26,708 SD: I’m on the same boat that I start with. Sometimes when you write it down, you know, when people are starting a budget, when you first write down, what are your bills that you have to pay every single month? Just having that number in front of you. A lot of people haven’t done that.

So yeah, for our members or business owners who want to provide an education like this to our employees, Consumers @Work is exactly for that. So, on our website in the business services tab, under the learning tab, you can find Consumers @Work and connect business owners to us. We don’t charge anything for the service. We’re really trying to help our members become better citizens and that helps the businesses and helps all of us.

00:11:02,627 LJJ: One more question for you, and it’s a three-part actually. Tell me what three, I guess, words of wisdom do you think are the most important for anyone of all age who are—who is feeling like I really need to jump into handling my finances in a really good way?

00:11:19,303 DDB: The first thing is approach it with curiosity. Don’t—I say this thing and it sounds like I’m cussing, but I promise I’m not. Don’t “should” on yourself. Just investigate, be curious. I don’t know if any of you listening are old enough or young enough to of watched Wish Bone or Ghostbusters: put on your detective hat. Ask the question, “What’s happening with my money, and do I want it to be different?”

And then the second thing, just start. If you’re wanting to invest, if you’re wanting to save, if you’re wanting to figure out if you can get a better job. Start the process. Just start.

The third thing is, have fun. Money really is fun. And so, if we can figure out how to feel balanced in our budgets, and our money coming in and out, life does feel much easier. And it’s possible. You can do it!

00:12:11,331 LJJ: Scott, anything else?

00:12:12,832 SD: No, I think those are those are great questions. We really appreciate you coming in today.

00:12:15,033 DDB: This was awesome.

00:12:18,001 LJJ: How to Afford Everything. Yes, you can. It’s Dr. Darla Bishop. Online?

00:12:24,939 DDB: Yes, you can get it directly from me at DarlaBishop.com or anywhere you like to buy books online.

00:12:30,508 LJJ: Perfect. Everyone, thank you so much for listening and we really appreciate it. If you have a topic that you’d like to share, please do so. But also, hey, if you have comments and have read Dr. Bishop’s book, please let us know, we’d love to be able to share the testimonials with all of our members.

Thank you, Scott. Thank you, Darla.

00:12:52,354 LJJ: And now it’s time for our Money, I’m Home. Business Expert Minute. And with us is Sandy Bloem. Sandy is our expert here at Consumers Credit Union. Sandy, business services … I’ll tell you what, we have just the best team in place for businesses out in our communities.

00:13:08,496 Sandy Bloem (SB): Absolutely. I would 100% agree with that. I love our team. There’s so much experience. And one of the things I’m really excited about is that all of our decision-making for our business loans is local. And so, there’s no going out of state. And everybody knows our community. They live in our community, and they understand the business challenges that our small businesses have where they live.

00:13:36,811 LJJ: Wow! Now that is learning a lot here at Consumers Credit Union. And don’t forget, you can find out all about financial education on our website at ConsumersCU.org.

Let’s see you in a couple of weeks on Money, I’m Home!