It’s once again time to check in with Consumers Fraud Specialist Kristy Desimone. On this episode of Money, I’m Home, we’re discussing how fraudsters are using AI to generate recordings of your loved ones’ voices in a heart-wrenching demand for money.

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0:00:00.7 Lynne Jarman-Johnson (LJJ): Money, I’m home. Welcome in. I’m Lynne Jarman-Johnson with Consumers Credit Union. From finance to fitness, we’ve got it all. And you know what? We really like to check in every month with Kristy Desimone. She is our fraud specialist. And I’ve got to tell you, something happened in our family, Kristy, that really kind of just has a shaking our head. And I know what you’re going to say, that this happens so often, but man, is scary. So first off, welcome!

0:00:36.8 Kristy Desimone: Thanks. I’m happy to be here!

[laughter]

0:00:39.3 LJJ: We just love having you. You know, last about just maybe two weeks ago at the most, my son was in town and he went to go visit his grandma and grandpa, and they had a really great lunch and had a great time. And then he took off back to work. And the next morning my dad-in-law got a phone call and it was an individual who said, “Hey, we have your grandson. He was in a car accident, he’s kind of beat up a little. The person that he hit is in the hospital and he’s here in the jail.” And so, what ended up happening was they never said his grandson’s name.

0:01:22.9 KD: Okay.

0:01:23.7 LJJ: But they put somebody on the line that sounded exactly like my son. And sure enough doesn’t, you know, my father-in-law immediately just jump right in and say, “Oh my gosh, Luke is okay.” So, then he says the name, right? Then they go, they keep going about Luke, Luke, Luke. Well, he is as smart enough that he gets his wife on the line to also just, you know, they’re like, “No, this can’t be, this can’t be.” But it was so real and it was so scary. And they asked for $5000, they actually said, “We’re going to send somebody to your house and you have to give us cash.” Now, Kristy, I know this stuff is going on, but then when it really does hit home, you just go, “How did that happen?” And did they really know that? It makes your head explode about the phone. Are they listening? How do they find out about it? And then call an elder adults who literally, of course, they’re going to want to help their grandchild.

0:02:34.8 KD: Right. Of course, they plan those heartstrings in order to get you in a position where you’ll say yes to things you normally wouldn’t say yes to. And the dangerous part is sometimes when you answer a phone call that you don’t know who it’s from, and we like to answer and see that it’s a fraudster and maybe ask some questions. They can actually like record your voice and use that information to try and pull a scam on someone you know, right? They could have gotten his voice, Luke’s voice, and then said, I see here on your Facebook, these are people you’re related to.

0:03:08.9 LJJ: Wow.

0:03:09.3 KD: And then found that way. So artificial intelligence also can play a role in it and help create like a voice recording.

0:03:16.8 LJJ: Now, Kristy, I know that at Consumers were very, very focused on making sure that especially anybody who’s in a vulnerable position, that we are making sure we’re helping them, and also reaching out. But you had mentioned earlier, to me about the fact that the State of Michigan actually now has laws for financial institutions. Tell us a little bit about what it is that we have to keep our focus on?

0:03:45.1 KD: Yeah, so we have to report any activity that we feel may be taking advantage of our advanced members. So anything from, it could be a family member, it could be a scam they’ve gotten themselves involved in. We have to make sure we report that information in order to protect those members because the world changed and they play on the fact that maybe they don’t know any better, or maybe they haven’t experienced it. And buying gift cards to give to a scammer to help their grandson doesn’t seem weird to them, because that could just be the way the world is at this point. You know? It does, the banking industry changes, so yeah, we have to report that information and when we’re provided these scams, like we have to make sure that the member is being taken care of because we don’t want them to fall for these scams.

0:04:30.9 LJJ: You know, I know that you also present on fraud, to our employees, to our team members, and you’re consistently, you’re talking about all of the different types of scams, but you know, when you start off with somebody who let’s say is a brand new employee, tell me about how do you start that conversation about what we need to look for? What are some of those red flags?

0:04:55.1 KD: Yeah, so my number one thing to go to for a new employee is, if this was your grandparent, would that seem normal to you? Would you question that transaction if your grandparent was on the phone telling you this is what happened? And a lot of times that will be able to recognize, hey, if my grandparent came up to me and said this, I would be very concerned. And that helps us recognize that moment.

0:05:20.2 LJJ: Someone trying to really get some information from them, right?

0:05:24.7 KD: Yeah, of course. And sometimes fraudsters will even try and coach our members through conversations when they come to the office. So being aware of that behavior too, we’ve even had to reach in and hang up a phone because they’ve been on trying to coach a person through the conversation in an office.

0:05:41.8 LJJ: Wow.

0:05:42.1 KD: Yeah.

0:05:42.6 LJJ: You have mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating. There literally is nothing about something that sounds too good to be true. It is. Like people, if you go, “Oh, somebody offered me… ” you know, I get emails from Prince somebody and he’s gives [laughter] like a million dollars, you know.

[laughter]

0:06:04.5 KD: Exactly. If it’s too good to be true or you have to send funds back some kind of way, whether it’s a gift card or a Venmo or Cash App, that is a scam. You don’t have to send funds back when somebody is purchasing a service from you or buying something offline or in that situation, if their son or grandson is in the hospital, why would they need $5000? Like, that just doesn’t make sense.

[laughter]

0:06:33.7 LJJ: You said it perfectly, it’s your heartstrings they’re pulling on and then that fear of that. For us it worked out that they understood it and hung up the phone. What I do think is interesting though is, it made me realize, you know what? We need to be talking to our parents, our grandparents, about these types of scams that are happening because they are preying on older adults.

0:07:04.7 KD: They really are. And they create this sense of urgency around the situation, which makes that person feel like, I can’t hang up the phone and call my grandson because the situation right now is so urgent. But that’s what you need to do. Hang up the phone and really reach out to the person until they answer. Don’t send any funds or anything until you get confirmation from that person.

0:07:25.9 LJJ: Yeah. They immediately callee Luke and he’s going “I’m working.”

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0:07:30.9 KD: Right! And they’re completely like, nothing’s wrong.

[laughter]

0:07:34.1 LJJ: It freaked him out too. I mean, it’s a scary, sad world that we live in when there are people out there that are trying to really harm other individuals by getting their money, you know?

0:07:46.0 KD: Right. And I think you made a great point. Education and communication are the only two ways we can fight against fraudsters and scammers. And if we have open dialogue and open conversation with our family members, our loved ones, we’re equipping them to be able to handle those situations, just like those grandparents did, they hung up the phone and they made a call because they could recognize what was going on.

0:08:08.4 LJJ: That’s absolutely true. Hey, Kristy, tell me a little bit about what’s coming up next month. What are we expecting?

0:08:13.1 KD: Yeah, so next month we’re going to talk about some online loan scams and our online banking credentials, protecting them is what we need to do.

[laughter]

0:08:23.9 LJJ: Awesome. I can’t wait. I will talk to you next month and hey, if you have a topic, you know what? If you want a different type of discussion about fraud and scams and things that are going on, please don’t hesitate to send us a topic information. We would love to have you on the show. I’m Lynne Jarman-Johnson. Thanks again, Kristy. See you next month.

0:08:41.9 KD: Bye!

0:08:42.9 LJJ: And thank you Jake Esselink for your production skills. We hope everybody has a very safe week this week. Thanks for joining us. I’m Lynne Jarman-Johnson. Money, I’m home with Consumers Credit Union.

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